Thought I should submit an official response to the proposed play area.

My family and over 20 families I have spoken to in the play ground at Cliffedale primary school think it is an excellent idea and very much needed facility.

I intend to carry out consultation with the parent of the children at the school in duie course.

Lets provide the things that are clearly lacking and not let nimby mentality spoil it.

Regards, Resident
Mr & Mrs Hardy
Max aged 6 Leo aged 3

Thanks!

I would like to thank you a lot for taking my ideas on board and I will make my opinions factual next time!!!!! (:

I really hope that the Manthorpe Residents Association is successful and I wish you the very best of luck in the journey forth.

Thanks again, Esther Longden

Firstly, may I say that you obviously have the best interests of the residents in the area at heart and the website you have created seems to be well thought out and informative.

However, I cannot begin to tell you how strongly we would object to any proposed play area on the green area on Buttercup Meadows. My family and I (wife and two young children) have lived on Ryedale Close for more than 7 years, and whilst it has been lovely not living in a completely built up part of the estate, we believe that putting a play area there is just asking for further trouble.

As previous correspondents have commented upon, the likely result will be that this type of facility would end up vandalised and would in fact attract older children more intent on making mischief and scaring away the young users.

Grantham is already served by an excellent park at Wyndham Park, this has its own parking facilities and can also be accessed by a lovely walk/cycle ride through the Queen Elizabeth Park along the River Witham. Something I have done with my young children for the past 10 years. I myself have lived on the estate all my life and have always managed to get to alternative designated venues to play with friends.

I would also have an issue about the safety of the children who came and use the play area. I would think that most of the children will be unsupervised by adults who assume that the park would be quite safe, however, there is a public right of way from the field into Manthorpe village which provides the opportunity for any member of the public to enter the play area without going through the estate. In this day and age I don't have to tell you that this is not ideal.

Furthermore, if families did use the park and arrived by car, parking would be an issue as the cul-de-sacs were not designed as a car park but purely for access to the properties. Any extra cars would result in further disruption to residents as they would be obstructed from their own driveways, not to mention the potential danger to our children. Overall this idea appears to show little thought and consideration to the local residents who will end up suffering further disruption and inconvenience.

May I finally add that these comments are not made as an attack on you or the other members of the Association but are simply meant to convey our very strong feelings that we have against the suggested play area. As one of the households that would be most affected, I trust our views and feelings will be taken seriously, as all our family feel very strongly that this should not happen.

The Wright family on Ryedale Close (who will be attending the next meeting)

We have lived on this estate since 1977, We have witnessed changes over the years not many but a few. Anyone who knows me will recall that myself and a few other tried to stop the the longcliffe rd scheme, which ruined a pleasant estate rd. Other measures could and should have been applied, This is now being proved. My name & picture was in the journal, I Did not hide behind a pen.

I have written letters about dog fouling with little support and again I did not hide behind a pen, I had one hell of a battle to stop a neighbors extention to which I won. Again I did not hide behind a pen. So if I don't agree with anything that the Manthorpe residents association wants to do I would attend the meetings a tell them.

And so I say to the non members group or maybe the non member? That if you feel as strong about your what your letter imply's then on May the 15th turn up and have the B---S to stand up and be counted. I know I would give you respect even though I may not agree. One more point the Non members group said in there letter about Anti social youths, My friend there may be anti social youths on this estate as there is on all estates around the country, But I doubt that you will find more anti-social grown ups than you will find on this estate.

Pugsey Parker Kingscliffe rd

EVERY ACTION PROVOKES A REACTION

May I suggest that those people who wrote anonymously to the editors with regard to the play area, express their opinions from within the association, rather than from outside. The editors have done a very good job in establishing a framework for a representative body for the Manthorpe area, with the aim of improving the environment for the benefit of the whole area.

Not all the proposals / suggestions will or should be taken forward. The numerous communications on this subject demonstrate the need for some kind of constituency representation, in order to ensure that any one issue is not hi-jacked or even buried by a more vocal minority, without an open debate.

GRAHAM

Hi Derek

Thank you for your email. I am sure that a play area will not come about that quickly, so there is plenty of time for debate. It may be that it could be debated at a future RA meeting. Yellow lines are only worth something if they are enforced. At the end of the day whether a playground is built or not the problems that you have outlined will probably still arise.

Wendy and Tony Burns

As a resident of Ryedale Close whose home fronts the field in question I would most strongly object to the erection of a play area. We are constantly inconvenienced by the parking of cars at the bottom of our drive making access to and from our homes difficult or in some cases impossible. So if ever an emercency vehicle is required at our property it is advisable to have a heart attack between the hours of 1.00 am & 5.00 am as few of these inconsiderate souls are about at that time of the day, thereby allowing access for emergency vehicles on both times my wife had a suspected heart attack in December last year.

The problem of vandalism is another concern, although this would probably put an end to the parking problem very quickly - theres not much point in going to a playground with no swings, roundabouts or slides for young children to use -- hence no cars to bring the children.

We have been plagued by under aged drinking , including sweet Johnny throwing up on the front lawn. Rubbish being thrown into our gardens, noise into the early hours of the morning. People allowing their dogs to deficate on our gardens and pavements. Horse riding and motor cycling on the field, on occasions at just about the time some of the pupils of Cliffdale School are making their way home to Manthorpe village across the field.

We purchased our home on the clear understanding that the land previously owned by John Pask had been made available in its present form for the use of all of the people of the parish of Manthorpe and would not be concreted over in any way, even to form a childrens play area. If people purchasing houses on the Manthorpe estate did not like the fact there were no facilities for a childrens play area they should have looked elsewhere for a home or do as most of our charming neighbours do , buy some outdoor toys for their children and place them in their own gardens.

As Pamela said in her letter to you , the vast majority of the residents of this area are united in our opposition to this idea. At the end of the day lets hope this matter is resolved in a democratic manner for the good of local residents. Then if people from other areas of the Manthorpe Estate feel that a playground is required I am sure space can be found closer to where they live ( perhaps Dovedale Close as an example) instead of spoiling what is a truley lovely enviromental area of this lovely town.

If this project does go ahead I would hope consideration would be given to putting double yellow lines around the ends of both cul-desac's- which are after all supposed to be turning areas, not parking areas.

Finally I would suggest the most apt reason for leaving things exactly as they are is the plaque on the bench on the Manthorpe Road side of the field, in memory of someone not now able to join in this debate ,but, who's love of this tranquil place is an object lesson to us all.

Kind Regards, Derek Betts

Dear Teenager

Firstly may I say how pleased we were to receive your opinions on the Buttercup Meadow play area, It is good that youngsters such as yourself has taken the opportunity to express your feelings. Tony & I are OAP’s so in some sense we are able to take a more liberal view & we certainly have no axe to grind, but I would like to point out these facts.

1. Childrens’ playgrounds are not allowed to be made of concrete. The reason being that if a child falls off a swing or any playground equipment they could be badly injured, therefore the floor of the playground must be soft but also durable

2. The size of the playground need only take up a small area

3. This field was designated & set aside for recreational purposes by covenant. So far this covenant has not been enacted.

4. I am glad that you have happy memories, you can eventually pass these on to your own children, however there are other children on the estate that would also like to have happy memories, so as you say there are other sides to this problem.

As funding has to be found no immediate action will take place & therefore there is plenty of time to debate this issue

Wendy Burns

The Play Area Proposal On The Field

I am a young teenage girl living on the Manthorpe Estate, Grantham, and I have recently heard the news that a play area is to be built on the field that is situated just behind my home. I thought that, as a child in the neighborhood and a potential user of the play area, I should submit my thoughts on the proposal of a playground on the top half of the field.

The field, for me, has always been a place of recreation and enjoyment where I walk my dog and play with friends alike. Remembering memories of picnics and bike rides on the field always makes me happy and it is definitely a place, buried deep in my mind, which I will never forget. Like lots of the other residents living close to me on the Manthorpe Estate, I would be unhappy to see half of the field shrouded in concrete and swings that will not see the use of only young children in the area, but teenagers with nothing better to do than vandalize it. Why build such a mess on a stretch of land that will probably not be used for its true cause anyway? Why build on our field when there is an unused area near the stream that could easily accommodate a small playground.

Building on the land would be an eyesore for people living on Ryedale Close and some parts of Rosedale Drive too. I live on Rosedale Drive and I, for one, would not be happy to see diggers, cranes and goodness knows what else out of my window. I can guarantee that half of the people I know in my neighborhood would be annoyed too. Secondly, it would attract more and more people to the area so the small cul-de-sac on Ryedale close would always be clogged up with cars, making it difficult and a hap-hazard for residents living just yards behind to move their vehicles. Thirdly, it would be unsafe for young children as it is very close to a road.

On the plus side, many young toddlers and children living on the Estate would have something to do on the friendless weekends and would be driven away from causing trouble. Many parents would appreciate it as well because there would be less whining from their little children! Again, it would make use of some land which sometimes is empty.

In conclusion, I think that the council proposing the plan should rethink it and take a moment to remember the people who will be affected by their plans. They should take the time to remember there is two sides to everything and maybe some people would not benefit from this and would not like a concrete eyesore on their land!

Thanks,
Esther Longden

Manthorpe News

I am 12 and just going on 13 the idea of a playground for the younger years would be great. But why not stop and think about us 'inbetweens' for once! Its all well and good having a playarea for the little ones but what are you going to do when one night you wake up, check your emails and find that your new play area has been turned in to a grafity pad for those who have nothing better to than hang around street corners and scare the living day light out of the older generations.

Yes I would love a play area for my younger sister to take her friends to when they come round for dinner, but i dont want to have to go with them because their scared to go near the horrid teenagers!! Personally me and by 4 best friends who all live somewhere on the Manthorpe esate think that its a rediculous idea and that the money which shall go towards it should be spent on something decent that will last a life time not just a day or so!

So do what you like but when doing so think about every single letter or email you have recieved not just the one that you would like to read but the ones that you dont want to read!

Angry KGGS Student

As someone who actually lives on what is known as Buttercup Meadows, I would be totally against any type of play area on the site

Why you may ask?

Since moving in seven years ago we have watched with dismay at nearly every young tree planted by the developers, being destroyed by youths who like to frequent the area in the spring and summer months. Our driveways are continually blocked while people who live on Longcliffe and other surrounding roads park their cars while taking their dogs for a walk and to leave their foulings for the young children who do play on the field to walk in and run the risk of disease. A play area would as suggested create more traffic on the two cul-de-sacs that are the only vehicle access to the field. Each spring and summer we live in dread of the large groups of youths who already think it is fair to drink alcohol and run round the field shouting and screaming until the early hours or until the over worked Police eventually turn out to try and move them on. Add to this the wonderful people who think the field is for setting up a barbecue on and having a picnic, leaving all the usual bottles and rubbish behind when they go. We also get the regular few who turn up when its dark and pitch a tent in the field. Luckily a gated entrance has been installed at the footpath leading from the corner of the field onto Manthorpe Rd, which has cut down on the horse riding on the field as well as motorbike users using it as a short cut. Even with this in place young adults were cleared off the field recently for riding these miniature motorbikes.

Somebody will either lose their no claims insurance or worse still an eye due to the stupidity of these people. When the local council installed two half telegraph poles two years ago in the middle of the field as goal posts, it was only a matter of weeks before the yobs arrived at night (and some even during the day) to dig them up and throw them around the field. They finally disappeared after they where left leaning against the front doors of one of the properties that overlook the field. It was only the good sense of a neighbour ringing the owners to warn them that someone wasn't seriously injured.

You may think that this is written by a lonely old git without children, quite the opposite I have two children 7 and 12, who both love the field as it is, although the seven year old will not go on the field any more thanks to some irresponsible dog owners who let their animals off the leads to chase frightened children and then simply say "oh it won't bite it loves children". This is little help after the child has been terrified to the point of screaming and crying after being chased even on to her own driveway.

I trust this letter will be treated as constructive criticism, of an idea that's problems would far out weigh the benefits for the residents who actually live hear and the Police officers who would be forced to try and control these problems.

Regards Brett

I was at the meeting on Thursday and I am whole hearted for an association on the estate. I was impressed with the turn out, your receptiveness to all suggestions, in all a good meeting. Thanks to you two for taking the time to get this up and running. The website is excellent, very professional. May I wish you both the very best of luck and thank you for all your time and effert.

Chris Litscher

Hello

I have lived on Wensleydale Close for 14 years and my son went to Cliffedale School. Unfortunately he was killed in the road accident on Longcliffe Road in 1997, and if you go to Cliffedale you may have noticed his photograph in the reception area and the Science garden which we made in his memory.

I am interested in becoming involved in the association as I believe that the Manthorpe Estate is one of the best areas in Grantham and would like to see it go from strength to strength

Kind regards

Valeria & Peter Griss

Tony & Wendy,

Many congratulations on your website. Very fresh, well laid out and most important, interesting.

Very well done to you both,

Clarence

Hi

As a resident of the Meadows I would strongly object to a play area.  If you look at such areas throughout the town they quickly become a focus for ASB and under-age drinking. Children on this estate have swings in their gardens and use the general areas for informal play and ball games. We do not want any change to this. We already have problems with groups of older teenagers hitting cars with footballs, rugby balls and cricket balls. Clearly this suggestion comes from someone who does not live here.

Pamela

I am a childminder living on Kingscliffe Road and have often said that a playground on the estate would be a great idea.  It is such a large estate and there are so many children living and going to school here that it would definitely be well used.  My own children are now teenagers and I know there are also lots of older kids on the estate.  I wonder whether some sort of provision could be made for them aswell? Glad to here about the residents' association.  I think it's a brilliant idea and I will do my best to make it to the meeting on Thursday 28th.
Regards Tracey Smith

I used to play on the Cliffedale school playing field as a teenager as apart from the streets it really was the only place we could go. I'm shortly moving back to the estate and am also wondering if children are still allowed to play on there. Will ask the school on Monday since two of my children attend the school and it's Northcliffe Road we are moving to. Will let you know what the school says
Hopefully see you Friday
Mel

Dear Tony & Wendy,

Following the closure of Brook Street Post Office on the 16th January I have been monitoring the queues at the main Post Office on a regular basis. I wish to inform residents that as the average waiting time can now be 25 minutes, particularly on Monday and Friday I have made a formal complaint to Postwatch who have promised to investigate.

In total 4875 post offices have been closed with another 2500 to follow, a rate of almost 10 per week. By 2009 the network will have lost a third of its branches. Consultation has been exposed as a sham with a pre determined agenda, if one is saved then another has to close.

Yours sincerely

Ray Wootten
Councillor
St Wulframs Ward

Hi, we have just found your newsletter, and have found it to be a very good idea and a very interesting read.

We moved to this estate 18 months ago ( Longcliffe Road ) and had assumed – naively, that there would be a playground somewhere on the estate.  It is strange that, on an estate with the demographic mix it has (and was obviously designed for), no provision was made for this facility.  The planners would have known that young families would move in as there is a junior school in the estate.  It would also be nice to see tables/benches that older children could use to meet and chat at when they grow too old for swings etc, and for families to use when younger children are having fun. 

However, as nice as having a play park would be, any proposal would have to be carefully thought about. You do not want it to be too big as people who live in the two cul-de-sac's that join the field would not be wanting people driving and parking to take children to play.     A super idea, that we have always wondered why it has not been questioned before.

Keep the newsletter going.

Kim

Dear Tony & Wendy

You are to be congratulated for the excellent website that you have created for the residents living in our area. I have been monitoring your site daily and have recommended it to all my colleagues at SKDC. Myself and Councillor Graham Wheat wish you every success in setting up a residents association and give you both our full support.

Regards Ray Wooten

Councillor ST Wulframs

Hello Tony,

I was looking at your article on the Designated Public Place Order which I think you have got wrong. This order will give the Police powers to seize alcohol from youths over the age of 18 if they are causing a nuisance. It will not give them powers to disperse youths. Under this act Police can issue a fine of £50 or arrest and prosecute with a max fine of £500.

It has been operating in Sussex for a while i.e. Bognor Regis and been hailed as a success. The Wyndham Park Forum, the Police are all in favour of this act. The consultation period now begins, I have been canvassing fellow councillors to support this, so far all that I have spoken to have agreed. This order comes under the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001

Regards Ray Wootten